Osteopathic Assessment: Nicky Ellis: Integrative Health Convention 2018


so hello and welcome to the integrative
health convention 2018 or nine interviews today we’re going to find out
more about Nicky Ellis who is speaking at a convention this October about her
unique osteopathic assessment of musculoskeletal conditions. The integrative health
convention is an annual convention in London featuring many leaders in their
fields of complementary and conventional medical therapies to help people get
better through these various healing practices it’s an opportunity for
doctors therapists and the public to meet share learn from and connect with
each other we believe that holistic health is
essential and that people get better in more than one way we believe that we all
have so much to learn from each other and they’re the integrative health
convention provides a stage release for therapists for doctors and the public
there are a limited number of tickets available which can be purchased at
Integrative Health Convention dot code on UK this series of online interviews
will help you get to know our speakers better who are leaders in their
different fields of health healing therapy or even medicine and maybe help
you decide which talk to ten out of the 36 talk to choose from over two days at
the integrative health convention 2018 at the Park Plaza Victorian London
I’m your host Dr. Toh Wong and I’ve been a GP for the last 12 years in Devon and
I’m co-founder of neuro-linguistic healthcare limited, the organisers of the
integrative health convention. Neurolinguistic Healthcare provides courses in advanced
communication skills and therapeutic techniques as well as training in
hypnosis for healthcare providers. Today I’m speaking to one of our excellent
speakers who’s coming to the 2018 integrative health convention at the
Park Plaza in London under 13 and 14 October and she’s here to share with you
what she knows and tell us a little bit about who she is and what she does want
to expect from her talk at the convention so this is Nicky Ellis who’s
both an osteopath and a contemporary dance teacher and together with Sudhir
daya she runs Welbeck health considered is one another one of us because
who was a physiotherapist and they are both located in central London and they
can Nicky can be found on her website at www.911.gov an occasion and I can you
tell me a little bit more the audience little bit more about yourself maybe
what I didn’t cover well yeah I’m I think you’ve already said I’m an
osteopath and I divide my week between essentially breaking people and fixing
people I think so I teach dance to I’m very privileged to work with a group of
really fantastic young people that are being trained to potentially be elite
level dancers so I spend a lot of time curling them around of really shrieking
at them but then I also run a practice where lots of people come to be fixed
hopefully none of them of the people in my classes um yeah I saw I balance my
week between basically doing two different careers but both of them
informing each other essentially yeah and you do a unique form of Osteopathy
or your Osteopathy and and what you do can you tell us exactly what it involves
um I don’t I guess it I don’t know if it is unique in that other people probably
using similar skills but basically what I’ve found over the years is if
somebody’s torn a ligament in my knee they’ve torn a ligament in the knee
however sometimes people of reporting knee pain and there’s nothing that can
be found in the knee both from orthopedic testing or scamming and then
you need to start to look around at the body a little bit more globally in terms
of it’s all obvious looking at the foot looking at a head sometimes right up
through into the thorax and neck and I’ve just developed a really simple
system of looking for springing bodies so my belief is if you want to run them
if you want to run a marathon or you want to swing from a trapeze or you want
to do Pilates whatever is you choose to do exercise wise
you basically need the body to absorb force and recover from force so if you
decide to run and bounce off a wall that’s your choice you’ve got to be able
to take that force into your body but then recover very quickly from it
then do another repeated activities the same as running we hit a hard surface we
rebound in the cover so I just shift through the body through all the joints
in the body using what you obviously going to expect to see from a near huge
amount of range of motion compared to an SI joint so it’s about expectation from
each joint and then figuring out how they all communicate so I liken it from
my patients that like a bicycle in that sometimes you need your bike isn’t going
very well you need to put a little bit of air in the tires but you might also
need to oil the chain you might need to raise the saddle a little bit that in
itself will be enough to then be able to ride a bike easily but if you only pump
up the tires and don’t do the other bits still not going to have a very easy
cycle and so on people kind of understand that as a concept but if it’s
a really big thing like I don’t know the gears are completely broken I’m going to
need to send that off to the shop and that may be me sending you to an
orthopedic surgeon or a Rheumatologist because that’s something I can’t we can
do that’s how people have explained it and it’s about having flexibility and
absorbing a body’s ability to absorb so you could consider that strength you
wanted to cool so I’m always curious her what brings someone to be interested in
field and health and healing can you tell me how you got interested in what
you do in the story behind how you started doing what you do now say I when
I went off to her ballet school when I was 11 years old I got a scholarship it
like Billy Elia and went off to this great big mansion and was like oh god
what’s happening to me but I absolutely had the most wonderful time and while I
was there a teacher noticed something in my back and I was trembled off to London
see a specialist physiotherapist in dance who said you’ve got a scoliosis
and if you keep dancing you’ll be in a wheelchair by the time you’re 30 and so
a sobbing I think was 16 or 17 he went back to school
sobbing and phone my parents is that I don’t care if I’m paralyzed I have to
dance and made some great big drama and I’m as you put tell the loader than 30
and I’m not in a wheelchair so I from that point I started to become
interested in the body and I’d always loved biology at school I found it
really fascinating and sort of in history or had learned the dates and it
was interesting how we got to where we were in society but when someone
described to me how heart worked I was completely like this is the most
extraordinary thing so all the way through dancing one of my teachers at
school was also interested in dance medicine and health so I used to make
cups of tea at conferences and then go and stand in the conference and listen
to all the medical speakers and therapists from around the world it was
called I Adams an International Association for dance medicine and
science and I also used to do things for dance UK which is now one dance UK again
just handing out brochures but listening so I think somewhere along the way I
began to become interested and just without anybody pushing me down that
road and then I went on to train another college where they had an osteopath and
I something about how the osteopath spoke to me really resonated and I
really liked how they treated me and then again a few years later after I
finished college and I was I was doing seven or nine jobs so I was dancing
doing work for free working in a bar just struggling to basically run my
dance career and I found the 50 pounds or whatever it was that I needed to see
the osteopath about my very sore knee and he just said to me I know your knee
hurts but you’re not coping and the fact that he acknowledged how I was feeling
and was having such an enormous impact on my body such a relief because
I secretly I knew it I just didn’t know that you could say it and I just had
this feeling that all the time if I was feeling struggling with stress or how I
was existing that my body was manifesting in strange ways and
mechanically wasn’t functioning when I danced how I wanted it to but I knew
hadn’t hurt myself I suppose that was the moment where I became where they say
hooked or des is definitely sparked of greater interest for them and then I
continued dancing for several more about five or six more years and at that point
was going I can’t keep living off four dancers wage I need to do something else
and started to explore Osteopathy and have been different mediums and so I did
a physics course and chemistry course in an evening while I was still dancing and
slowly put things into place and then I jumped in and went to college he was 29
when I started and and then all graduation from Osteopathy went straight
back into dance again but this time as a teacher and that only there’s a tiny bit
of Osteopathy and then as the years I think I think as I was an older student
I knew how I wanted to practice and I understand that the colleges have to get
you to behave in a certain manner to pass exams but I felt like I’d had a bit
of who I was suppressed so I just slowly worked in a few small clinics and found
my style of treating and communicating with patients and then just started to
build up my own list and one of the things that I said I think has been the
most powerful for me is using that one moment where that osteopath gave me that
opportunity to say how are you you don’t seem like you’re coping and so men and
so many of my patients are relieved I think when I say you don’t seem okay is
anything bothering you how are you and not just talking about a body part from
a musculoskeletal perspective so yeah now
I after graduating also started lecturing in anatomy to dancers and this
thing breaks loads of them are now training his physios and osteopaths and
what one of the things they often say to me is I want to be able to know how I
want to be able to know how you are able to tell if someone’s happy or not or
what’s troubling them and they they understand they can learn the mechanical
aspects but it’s the process of asking I suppose that intimate question not
intimate in a sexual way just intimate in going you seem a bit sad or you okay
and I’m not a counselor but it allows the beginning of a conversation and for
me to facilitate that person seeking appropriate help to go and talk to a
counselor or to go see an orthopedic surgeon if they’ve ruptured their ACL so
it’s a dialogue that allows me to develop or signpost people so that’s
kind of my story from starting and dance and fight and always loving the body and
I guess working with my body every day and what what this body in the room
could do something why another one couldn’t and watching friends being
injured and watching some of them recover and others not and why why they
were and why others weren’t and I guess beast of psychology showing itself to me
what about other speakers are like saying Amanda Shelley was talking about
acupuncture she started out as a professional dancer as well actually
okay how about Dancing has to do with the body and and it eventually leads you
to work with the body yeah and so much of obviously yeah not many jobs have
people touching each other all day and in a dance studio people grab you in
some quite intimate places sometimes to make sure you don’t fall flat on your
face and so you know if you think of like
ballerina pose with the bori with the girl over their head the hands is in
quite an intimate place and the girl will be quite happy about that because
she doesn’t want 4 to 2 meters to the floor so people are you’re used to
handling bodies and seeing the robustness of them really it always knew
how robust human bodies are and when you read things like is it the femur won’t
the femurs stronger than a piece of concrete concrete will break before
femur breaks I think I read once because it’s able to expresses and what a great
kick we’ve been given and making sure that stays trying to keep that optimal
through the fuel we in it and how we think and look after it well great thank
you and in October at the Park Plaza you’re going to talk about your unique
osteopathic assessment of lethal conditions can you tell us a bit more
about this topic that you’re going to talk about and what the audience will
gain out of it what I hope stay I’m afraid you might be getting any
PowerPoint from me because I don’t I’m a technophobe most of what you’ll be doing
is practical and some really hilarious drawings on the whiteboard that I
remember I try to use technology and some students said please can you stop
because your pictures are so funny we always remember what you drew so
basically what I hope to do is just give you a few ideas of how very quickly to
look in different places of the body so I guess if I give an example of the
patient and then explain it might be helpful to you so I had a patient come
in it in fact she takes my dance class I’m not sure I kept noticing she didn’t
jump and I said why don’t you jump she should have had an ankle injury the
years and I don’t like to mix business so I just wonder I said well I can look
at it but it’s up to you so go on then but no one can find anything and her
story was she been hurt a hurdler she’d gone into a hurdled into practicing gone
into a sand pit and gone down on her ankle
loads of pain couldn’t walk and she had had to arthroscopy ‘s and nobody could
find anything wrong with her ankle but now she couldn’t really walk round the
shops anymore and she taken to doing aerial circus skills because she could
use her upper body not have the foot on the floor so I looked at her ankle I
mean it was a bit stiff and sticky and but then I went your fibula doesn’t move
I just moved up one fibula at lateral malleolus and superior fibular head I
started to just move her fibula head and suddenly her foot pain started to grease
what amazed me undepressed me is that the lateral malleolus is part of a bone
that goes up to your knee and nobody had ever looked at the other end of the same
bone my sausages do a little bit of movement with it and shred I’ve been
walking around the shops and that my started moving up to her hip when we
said to when you went down into the sand pit and he said you Jeannie said she’d
sprained her ankle did you ever have any bruising did you foot go and I
spectacular rainbow color and she said no that’s way my other ankle it did that
I said don’t think you sprained your ankle and suddenly there was a silence
and hopefully she’d been had to offer Oscar peas and nobody had asked her if
her foot had ever stolen or gone black and blue and it was very simple
questions and then very simple tiny bits of spring and all I was doing was going
I don’t expect to fibular head to be swinging like the windscreen would but I
do need to get in the joint and just that started to create a whole chain of
events and then we started because of how she’d been walking moved up into the
hip and pelvis work through that and then I’m not a rehabilitation specialist
I said you can now walk pain-free and she said what I’d like to run again I
said well I I’m gonna send you to physiotherapist because I share my
practice with physio and I think what we’ve both worked towards is not being a
jack of all trades and a master of non is I’m just really good at this little
bit and now in to pass you to the next person and they
can do that really well that’s not say I can’t do rehab I can just don’t develop
my interest in such a way that my interest is in as the physio said you do
Braille read Braille you read the tiny bits of the body that are out of line so
I’d like I think I said in the summary of what I do I think the body’s like an
orchestra and what you’re doing is you’re looking for in the strings you
can hear that there’s a bomb note and you have to search through which violin
it is that’s making the bomb note and then you’ve got a reaching everybody to
meet that so for me that violence would be bones the brass could be basher the
wind can be the muscular system that’s about getting all of them to balance and
create a unified sound together and that’s what I do and it is very simple
it’s just a little bit of bounce and spring and looking for what I call speed
bumps so I move something and I expect it to move
I expect to hit hit to move like a pestle in water I’m stirring it round
and suddenly you hit a divot or a little jaunt and then you start having a look
at that and I’ve had incidences where scams have said there’s nothing damaged
but I’ve been absolutely convinced there is and when surgeon and and I I’m not a
big advocate of surgery will always try not to go there for patients but some
have had to go then when they’ve gone in they’ve had a huge lingual test that
haven’t shown up on the scan and it was just from a very simple as a texture and
you can only learn that I think through just holding lots of joints and just
move of them and you’re not going to harm anyone people do way worse for
themselves walking down the street and tripping on pavements now thinking up a
shopping trolley a saree shopping basket so that’s really simply what I do and
I’ll just share how I quickly and it is a very quick process of how I shift
through the body and as you move or join and this is owning my belief system when
I move so if I move a vertebra will watch the rest of the body vibrate
and then if you move up a vertebrae suddenly it doesn’t move very well and
the rest of the body stops moving and I would say that’s just you’ve got a
roadblock you’ve got 26 bones that I’ve got the
capacity to move in the spine if three or four of those don’t move if you’ve
now got essentially an office where three people have gone up off sick
everybody else starts to take me work and so it’s so simple way i assess
obviously you’ve ruled out any red flags and usually orthopedic tests if you’ve
got a raging disc I’m not gonna start doing some of the things that I’m doing
or if I’ve got a great big red hot swollen me I’m not gonna stop any of
these things because I know that’s not something I can deal with at that point
mm-hmm so my medical knowledge does assist me but once I feel like I’ve
ruled out those anything really imminent danger then I can start to assess for
the core weird and wonderful well that’s why all the training is so essential
isn’t it to to make sure that you don’t continue treating red flags and move
them on and it’s like you said it’s nothing wrong with having your own
little interest and be happy with that then really good at something and then
recognize maybe someone else is better at something else yeah and for me it’s
answered a well here I went with weave I guess we’re cherry-picking a team and
that doesn’t mean we only have one for instance if we send once people stopped
working with us we said they want to get back to activity we might have some lots
of personal training we don’t have one we might have three because everybody’s
got different personalities and responds to different people and I think the
greatest magic is that first meeting where you connect with your patient and
make them feel safe and if you can get that and you can make that sort of it’s
almost like in a weird way it’s like speed dating where you’re going like you
I want to talk to you more I’m gonna tell you more things or you sit back and
you don’t and so a lot of people we do we very carefully cherry-pick and
we try and match people because if you go and work with someone that you don’t
like that’s really demotivating and then essentially fall out the mobile health
mmm so yeah we’re just building that Network
brilliant having thought about the Integrative Health Convention where the
audience will be made of doctors therapists in the public where do you
see your particular practice fitting in with integrative health or holistic
health um I think that I’d like trying to spell the myth of rural bone crunches
there’s many many particularly in the conventional medicine lots of gp’s lots
of patients say their GP say oh don’t see an osteopath they just crunch your
bones and give people a stroke a home cracking their necks and I whilst I know
those people that behave like that I also know that every medical field
there’s GPS that oversubscribe over over prescribe medication and poisoned their
patients and misdiagnosis are always good and bad people and all practices
and so I’d like to dispel some of the myths that we all are bone crunches
there’s a whole host of people out there working in different ways I’d also like
to let all the other complimentary therapists know how different osteopaths
work because we have in Osteopathy quite well known as cranial Osteopathy which
some people use and some people think is voodoo hoodoo and other people swear by
it and it’s amazingly open a dialogue really of discussion so often I feel
people stand in their corner trying to fight their corner I’ve got no corner to
fight the only corner right the only thing I want to fight for is getting
people better and it’s that seeing a psychic healer or that seeing a
homeopath or that seem surgeon whatever journey someone makes is that getting
them back to health getting them back to living again living a life that they’re
happy with in relative comfort so that’s really all I hope to do and I’m always
curious to hear how other people think and operate and I think as we
had a conversation before we went online a lot of people are thinking the same
thing and doing the same things we just described them in different ways hmm I
think that resonates how you describe it if that resonates for a person then that
will help yeah absolutely that’s the last one thank you
I’m asking one last question so as a therapist or teacher with years of
experience what do you think in particularly as the key to health and
healing in what you do something personal maybe that or about what you do
that you think makes the most difference listening and asking not being afraid to
ask difficult questions so if most people if it always horrifies and
saddens me how many people self-harm and I am in it I guess is the word privilege
right word I am in a position where when people take their clothes off and dress
down to their underwear I can see the palm cuts and I’ve had many
conversations about this where some therapists say I don’t know what to say
I don’t know how to ask him I said then you maybe if I ask I could be the person
that helps facilitate in getting the help they need hmm so sometimes I have
to ask really difficult questions I’ve asked questions about do you have an
eating disorder are you binging things that horrify
people and then they’ll burst into tears and say you’re the first person I’ve
ever told I’ve been bulimic for 25 years and then I can say would you like me to
show you I’ll feel you some avenues for support I can’t I can lead a horse to
water but I can’t make it drink but sometimes when you’re so lost and so
broken you can’t even know how to start helping yourself and so I feel that’s a
great privilege in the position of my work and I think those are my keys is to
listen and not to be afraid to ask difficult questions people can always
say they don’t want to answer the question
one ever asks you alone and strands it hmm and I think there’s a great relief
for many people when somebody says I do this okay that’s very simple and I think
the most powerful thing for men and the saddest thing news I’m we’re all health
care professionals I feel there’s a meant many many people dealing with
health I feel very strongly that the care gets lost who often care absolutely
absolutely and it’s so important to have that time to be able to do it as well as
it’s a luxury I am very aware that I have a lot of time that I can offer to
that and I know that in different mediums people don’t have that but
sometimes taking just a few moments a few extra minutes out of your day
I’d love to always finish work on time what we don’t because sometimes
something will reveal itself and I can’t us I think every single one of us who
treats patients can relate to that see how people run to Cairo like yeah I have
no idea so yeah that’s what I think good thank you
so thank you Nicki thanks thanks a lot for your time and thank you all to the
audience for watching and listening to this one so remember to get your tickets
early now from our website by following the links below
we are the integrated health convention in London on the 13th and 14th of
October 2018 at the Park Plaza Victoria you can use the discount code podcast 10
which will give you a 10% discount as a gift from us to you for sharing your
time with us today I wish I could attend all these 36 different talks you know
you can see at Nicky’s gonna give us a wonderful talk great to see you there
when we see you in October in London you get to meet myself Nicky and all our
other because there thank you very much thanks
thanks thank you thank you bye

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